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12/31/07 (01)
12/28/07 (14)
I live in Ellport and I havent heard anything about an increase in our sewer bills. Whats the deal?

I got this from the Ledger online:

ELLPORT
Sewer rate increase
The Ellport Borough Sewer Authority passed a resolution to increase sewer rates at its regular monthly meeting Dec. 20. As of Jan. 1, the base rate of $34 per month for the first 5,000 gallons of water used will increase to $40.

Water usage over 5,000 thereafter per month will now be billed at $4 per thousand gallons or its prorated portion of 1,000 gallons used, an increase of $2 per thousand gallons of water used over 5,000.

The authority engaged Hill Engineering to study the rate structure. The authority is faced with raising sewer rates to Ellport's approximately 500 customers due to annual debt payments to PennVest of almost $90,000 for the construction of the wastewater facility.

12/31/07 (02)
In ref #34 on 12/24-Why can’t the people of Ellwood see straight? The issues between the Mayor and the Chief are two separate issues! The State did not certify the Chief, not the Mayor! As to this third candidate from Midland if he is so good why isn't he working somewhere else in the nearly a year of this fiasco!

12/31/07 (03)
12/28/07 (07) "However, the majority of homosexuals choose that lifestyle. While I would never judge teh person, I do judge that behavior as wrong. The Bible says it's a sin and I believe it's a sin. However, everybody commits sins every day. So we shouldn't judge the sinner, just the sin."

I'm not sure why anyone would choose to be part of a minority group. However, I do like your argument about sinning. If everyone else is sinning in some other way what is the big deal about Gays supposedly sinning in that way?

12/31/07 (04)
12/28/07 (15) "Are you Satanic or Atheist? Either one why do you choose to not believe?"

I actually consider myself agnostic. I do not believe in faith without proof. There is just no evidence of it that I can see. The Bible is not proof--every religion has a book saying it is the true religion.

You might say you can sense God. Okay, how? Does God feel soft or taste sweet? Words mean something and the senses are sight, sound, smell, touch and taste. WORDS MEAN SOMETHING.

The Bible mentions plenty of revelations by burning bushes, et cetera. Where have all the visuals gone? By a visual I am not referring to one of those so-called sightings of our Lord or His Mother's image in a pancake, which is then preserved by the faithful.

I certainly do not believe in Satan. Christians and Muslims do and somehow believe that a loving God permits this creature to persecute humans.

12/31/07 (05)
12/28/07 (16) "98% of the time yes and the other 2% was when they were born into or caught up in a life issue that blinded them and they got trapped into it and now they cant find their way out..."

"heres some help... www.narth.com"

I fished around this site. It would seem to me that if this psychological therapy was real it would also apply to atheists, agnostics and other non-Christians. However, every article touches on religion.

A lot of psychologists and therapists might be put out of work if we could just learn to stop treating people badly.

12/31/07 (06)

12/31/07 (07)
I would just like to say reguarding the Legratta issue. That money was money from this community. That is OUR money. We should demand it back. if someone took from you personally you would want repaid, or them repremanded. Same thing here. Unfortually, my mother was one of his victums. She was suppose to recieve and X amount of dollars to fix up her house. Instead, they fixed it alittle left it a mess, and said we are out of money. Is that fair? She has holes in her walls, inside and out. NO money to pay for the repairs that had caused. So, now what is she to do? She is in her late 80's with very little money and was promised that they would fix everything. Yet, A year later and still nothing was done. These are the type of people who Lagratta effected. I think he should fix her house. What do you think? A little mad.....
**********************************

I agree with you! A little mad? This community should be a LOT mad! The sister received a check. For what? TO spend! That money would have fixed this poor women's house and paid another seniors gas bill or another's taxes so they won't LOSE the only home they have lived in all their lives! I think it's repulsive and so shameful, the actions of these three people and what is worse is is there any remorse?

Write letters and emails to the Attorney General. You can find the address on the web. Let them all know how you feel. It is the only recourse we have to fight this kind of behavior!
************************************************

Thank you for your concern...Let me tell you a little more. Again, my mother is in her late 80's. These people came into her home to fix up her house. She had an old coal furnace, with no heat up stairs. When she switched to a regular furnace, she still never had heat upstairs. Well, these so called contractors, hired by the county, came into her house. They tore out the old furnace put a new one in and proceded to drill holes to put heat in upstairs. Well, while doing this they needed to put in and exhaust outside. Another hole was drilled. They marked the place wrong and left the hole outside. (There is a big spot in her siding that they never replaced or fixed) As they carried paneling upstairs they hit the walls creating yet another hole in the wall. (not fixed) When they drilled for the upstairs. They started in one spot, didn't like where is was going, and drilled somewhere else. Leaving yet, another hole. They were suppose to put paneling everywhere upstairs. Not Done. Yet holes are left. These repairs that they had caused are very expensive to fix. She was promised that they would return to fix what they have done. Well guess what? There is no more money. Your right I am more than just a little mad. I am very angry. This is right in EC. I don't feel that I or my mother should pay to fix the mistakes they made. I think Lagrotta should fix them and pay for them himself. Instead he gets to sit back and collect unemployment. My mother get to sit back and collect nothing. It's just not FAIR!!!

12/31/07 (08)
12/27/07 (16)
Need some help. I am interested in having a fireplace built onto/into my existing house. Does anybody have any recommendations as far as contractors, etc? Along with this, I am also interested in having a wood/pellet stove installed into my existing chimney? Any help in regards to either of these would be greatly appreciated, thank you.

I had my fireplace changed over to a gas burning fireplace three years ago and still love it! I had Buster Boots do the work, He has the Boots and Sons place at the top of the Hill from Giant Eagle. Nice people to work with and they really did do a great job. I highly recommend him.

12/31/07 (09)

12/31/07 (10)

12/31/07 (11)
98% of the time yes and the other 2% was when they were born into or caught up in a life issue that blinded them and they got trapped into it and now they cant find their way out... heres some help...
www.narth.com

this website was a Godsend to my son about 3 years ago. i'm so glad someone posted it. if your out there and struggling with this issue there is some real help here if you will be as "open minded" as you all claim you are.

12/31/07 (12)
I have been a reader of this forum for quite a few years now, and there have been numerous discussions on this website of different subjects that have gone on for days or even months. As an example lets go back to the priest scandal a few years back. I do not ever remember a censor of comments or asking us to refrain from writing about a particular subject. That is until on this forum there was a statement asking us not to speak about the LaGrotta issue until there has been a fair trial or something of that nature. At the time I found this a little odd or out of character, but realized that it probably was asked by the family that is going through some hard times to please not perpetrate any more gossip. Now I hate people speaking ill if other people, but I believe in truth and justice. I am not a Mr. LaGrotta fan as I saw a few things over my years of his let's just say "mistakes" I would not have made as a public figure. I will not put them up on here now but I know some true and unbiased things that occurred a while back that I would like to comment on but I do not know if my statements although they can be checked and verified by others, would be allowed to be printed on here or these comments would be censored. Feedback on this would be appreciated. Thank you

EllwoodCity.org recently established Rules of Conduct for our Sound Off pages.  We try to moderate our posts using these guidelines.  Rules of Conduct may be found on our terms of service page

12/31/07 (13)
Mr. TD is confused about something (a rare occurrence). Mr. TD can’t understand how a heterosexual KNOWS that a homosexual chooses to be homosexual. One heterosexual on Soundoff even went as far as providing a numerical percentage on the population of choosers vs. non-choosers. Perplexing.

If TD wanted to find out as much as he could about a Muslim, and he had two people to interview (one being Jewish, the other being Muslim), TD thinks it would make the most sense to ask the Muslim. In all of TD’s years, TD has never met a homosexual that felt that he or she made the choice to be homosexual.

In any event, TD finds it sad that someone could hate another based solely on whom that person prefers to lie down with.

Having said that, TD offers the following to all of the homosexual men out there:

Our world is filled with men liking men…
Statistics predict that it’s one out of ten.
If you respect TD, TD will respect you…
TD will date Susie; you can date Lou.

TD doesn’t care if it’s men you are seekin'...
Or whether you’re Mexican or Puerto Rican.
Or whether you’re holy, or whether a sinner…
You’re still invited to TD’s for dinner.

12/31/07 (14)

12/31/07 (15)
I have been out of work for 8 years. I left to raise my child. I am looking to get back to work either full-time or part-time. If you know of any places that will be hiring please post it would be greatly appreciated. I have experience in the secretarial field, and banking.

12/31/07 (16)
I am saddened that I see Ellwood has not changed for the better since I left it 30 years ago or much at all. The petty sniping and uneducated comments that fill this forum are a sad statement of the town that I lived in for a large influential part of my life.

I have lived in many towns and cities since leaving EC but have never seen such vitriol since I left this town with the possible exception of some 3rd world counties where relegious dogma or political extremism runs rampant.

12/31/07 (17)
reply to 12/27/07/ [16] I am interested in talking to you about building a fireplace.You can contact me 724-480-5443. I have 20 years experience as a mason. I have references.I live in Ellwood.Thank you.

12/31/07 (18)
does this site have a "best of year" list?
if so, i nominate best band, generation 2, and best song, the pee wee song. go band, see you at the moose.

12/31/07 (19)

12/31/07 (20)

12/31/07 (21)
found a site in another town that seemed very interesting, they posed the names of their towns most eligible batchelors and batchelorets, It was a nice posting only good comments were allowed to be posted, why can't ellwood sound-off do something like that, seems like fun for a change!!

12/31/07 (22)
RE: 12/28/07 (07)
I am not the original poster, but I do believe people Choose to be homosexual. There are a few rare instances where a person is born with a certain set of chromosomes (XX or XY) but with a body that doesn't match. I truly feel sorry for those individuals as their feelings don't match their body. However, the majority of homosexuals choose that lifestyle. While I would never judge teh person, I do judge that behavior as wrong. The Bible says it's a sin and I believe it's a sin. However, everybody commits sins every day. So we shouldn't judge the sinner, just the sin.

And did you CHOOSE to be heterosexual? I think you have it backwards, I feel that the majority are born that way, and that a few have chosen homosexuality because of extenuating circumstances in their lives.

12/31/07 (23)
Wanting knowledge of placing council members in past seats. Does this mean top vote getter Mrs. Joseph Mancini will be our new council president, or will Mr. Court move up? They are both fine people, we the public would like a chance to vote of this and give our support where ever it is needed, can anyone tell us if this is going to be an option for the community? Please post any information we are anxious to help in any way to better our town. Thank you

12/31/07 (24)


12/31/07 (25)
Happy New Year to woman I think about each night my pillow hits the bed.Though I can only be with you in my dreams right now I look forward to the days that I can be by your side. I pray each day for you...I pray each day for us. Happy New Year baby.

12/31/07 (26)
Did anyone read the mayors comments, seems like hes the only one that believes in himself, we still should give this man the respect he needs & deserves. We elected him & as far as I'm concerned he has done up & above his job & call as a mayor, so his way is alittle different. atleast you can say he did get the job done, for if not for the complaints we would have never known the great job he has done! Hats off to our Mayor you are the best & will go down in history as getting more action out of these people in Ellwood than anyone, give 'em more action, fight 'em all the way it's what they want & you know how to do it! Great 2yrs. Don, more to go!!!!!

12/31/07 (27)
Wayne twp is the one who gave us the sewer tax hike almost 62% 36$ to 58$ their excuse was that Ellwood raised the price 90,000 more than it was. I think they are being greedy since the taxpayer has no say so and we are not shown any proof whatsoever that they are being completely honest. call wayne twp and they will not answer any questions!

12/31/07 (28):
I just returned from the 2007 Beardfest and let me tell you, WOW, what an event. It came down to 16 Bearded men who for the most part had not touched a razor in over 100 days! There was a ton of showmanship and even more fun, nearly 150 spectators, and the contest had 15 judges that had tough decisions to make, but it was a 1996 RHS Alumni, Justin Nash who walked out with the trophy and the crown! Great Event and I can't wait till next year! (12-27-08)

12/31/07 (29)
God rest the soul of Dr. Moore.His family is in our prayers. Such a loss for the city of Ellwood.

I hope that the posters are praying for marks Father, he lost his wife the day before Marks departure, they are together in Heaven, may they rest in peace.

12/31/07 (30)

12/31/07 (31)
Response to 12/27--05. I have been saying for a long time that this town needs businesses who support the community and the people in it. In return, it is up to us to support the businesses that are trying to make a difference here. This is a hard town to keep a business going. If you want businesses to stay, you've GOT to support them.

12/31/07 (32)
On Wednesday morning, I saw a very distinguished looking man (early to mid-forties) at PNC bank withdrawing several thousand dollars from his account. He had two letters tattooed on his hand...I think the letters were "D" and "T". Maybe this is the man that donated the money to the K-9 fund?

Whomever contributed the money, thank you so much...your act of generosity made my heart warm this holiday season.

12/31/07 (33)
To the person looking for someone to build a fireplace:
In my opinion, Dave Spielvogel and his son, Tony, are the best around. You can reach Dave by calling 724-752-1325.


12/31/07 (34)
I'm a Republican and I have to comment on the gay issue. I personally have NO PROBLEM with people being gay. If it is wrong, God will deal with it, it's not my problem. I know and am related to many gay people who are kind-hearted, personable, and the same as us in every other way. I don't care what they do in the privacy of their own homes. My only problem with gay people is some of the individuals at those gay pride parades with their choice of costumes, accessories, lewd acts, and mocking religion. THEY DO MORE DAMAGE to the cause than any political party can do. On the other hand, if they had straight pride parades, and straight people acted like that in public, I would be just as repulsed. What you do in your owm bedroom IS your own business. NORMAL people don't want to see displays of it in the streets. Come down on THOSE people, and leave the rest of us conservatives alone.
____________________________________________

You mean like the normal people who attend Spring Break every year and wreck towns? And drink to excess and have sex with anything that moves.

Or how about all the straight people on the South Side who publically urinate on the street every Friday and Saturday night when the bars close?

Or perhaps you mean Mardi Gras where women show there breasts for free beads.

When straight people do it, it doesnt seem to be quite as wrong does it???

And I know you think that is wrong also...But you forget to point them out in your post.


12/31/07 (35)

12/28/07 (01)
God rest the soul of Dr. Moore.His family is in our prayers. Such a loss for the city of Ellwood.

12/28/07 (02)
I would just like to say reguarding the Legratta issue. That money was money from this community. That is OUR money. We should demand it back. if someone took from you personally you would want repaid, or them repremanded. Same thing here. Unfortually, my mother was one of his victums. She was suppose to recieve and X amount of dollars to fix up her house. Instead, they fixed it alittle left it a mess, and said we are out of money. Is that fair? She has holes in her walls, inside and out. NO money to pay for the repairs that had caused. So, now what is she to do? She is in her late 80's with very little money and was promised that they would fix everything. Yet, A year later and still nothing was done. These are the type of people who Lagratta effected. I think he should fix her house. What do you think? A little mad.....
**********************************

 I agree with you! A little mad? This community should be a LOT mad! The sister received a check. For what? TO spend! That money would have fixed this poor women's house and paid another seniors gas bill or another's taxes so they won't LOSE the only home they have lived in all their lives! I think it's repulsive and so shameful, the actions of these three people  and what is worse is is there any remorse?

Write letters and emails to the Attorney General. You can find the address on the web. Let them all know how you feel. It is the only recourse we have to fight this kind of  behavior!

12/28/07 (03)
Regarding the reponse to 12/27-no 29. I don't believe in abortion, but I do believe in birth control in the first place. The problem is that too many women choose to keep having kids with deadbeat, worthless, males. We keep paying, and paying for it. Why don't they learn a lesson the first time? What bothers me, is that these same women are doing nothing but ruining their own lives, and the lives of their children. If you are 16 years old, what are your chances of getting your life together. Pretty slim, I say. People DON'T seem to get that they are just complicating their own lives and the lives of their kids. A little morality and self-respect would make their lives a whole lot easier. Did you notice the number of Salvation Army trees there were out this year? I took several names from them, because I do understand that it's not the kids's fault, but there are so, so, many of them out there. You have to be accountable for your own actions. Quit having children you cannot afford to raise. And quit making your life difficult by mating with losers. There are social programs out there, but not enough to cover everybody who is not willing to make logical choices in the first place.

12/28/07 (04)
12/27/07 (06) "RE:12/26/07 (21)Were you there for God or for the decorations?"

Well, the decorations can actually be seen, felt and appreciated.

12/28/07 (05)
12/27/07 (21)
People ask on here what types of business does Ellwood City need... we need more like Thanks A Latte... no not another latte place but something that is kid friendly. Something for the high school age kids. My child goes there with friends and they are more than welcome. And I like them going there better than driving to Starbucks. Thank you so much " Mr. Latte" ! ( no I am not the owner trying to promote the place for business just a mom who would like local places for kids! )

Rick & Karen have a great coffee shop. They welcome the kids and the kids respect them. They are wonderful people. It is so nice to have a place in Ellwood that welcomes not only adults but teenagers to.If you haven't stopped in try it. It is so relaxing with the fire place and talking to friends.

12/28/07 (06)
I happen to like the new colors at Holy Redeemer. I think the old wall color was bland and cold. The new tones (tan, not orange!) are much warmer and inviting. I think it looks much better. Of course everyone's entitled to their own opinion. That's why there's so many shades to choose from. To each his/her own!

12/28/07 (07)
I am not the original poster, but I do believe people Choose to be homosexual. There are a few rare instances where a person is born with a certain set of chromosomes (XX or XY) but with a body that doesn't match. I truly feel sorry for those individuals as their feelings don't match their body. However, the majority of homosexuals choose that lifestyle. While I would never judge teh person, I do judge that behavior as wrong. The Bible says it's a sin and I believe it's a sin. However, everybody commits sins every day. So we shouldn't judge the sinner, just the sin.

12/28/07 (08)


12/28/07 (09)
my deepest sympathy to the Moore family

12/28/07 (10)
The world would be a much better place if more people opened their minds and eyes and felt like this.
We are people, not gods. We should not judge others. We are not perfect. Everything happens for a reason. We have the right to choose many things. People do not always choose to become parents, but it happens, and people certainly do not choose to be gay.
You said it all when you said "Love people for who they are, not who YOU think they should be!"

-------
I definitely love people for who they are, but if you're not able to take the responsibility of becoming a parent, then don't have sex. Especially if you're under 18. Nobody is perfect and I've made my share of mistakes, however you learn from them. Like you said, things happen for a reason. So if you, or the girl you were with, becomes pregnant, it happened for a reason; don't kill it just because you think you can't take care of it.
P.S., this reply wasn't meant towards you personally.

12/28/07 (11)
Hearts Desire has many unique funeral items. They are the best and their flowers are the nicest around.

12/28/07 (12)

12/28/07 (13)
Dr. Moore was a GREAT doctor and a very nice man. I will miss him so much. My thoughts go out to Sue and the Moore family.

12/28/07 (14)
I live in Ellport and I havent heard anything about an increase in our sewer bills. Whats the deal?

12/28/07 (15)
Are you Satanic or Atheist? Either one why do you choose to not believe?

12/28/07 (15)
Life is full of decisions, you have made yours! But remember that when it comes to health care, college, etc.We have our own bills to pay!Please do it on your own! Abortion..If men were able to get pregnant, abortion would not be an issue!Think about that...

Men are not able to get pregnant, so there is no point in thinking about that. Legally, men have no say in the abortion decision, unless the baby is born, then he must support his child. Funny how it is a child when you can see it and an inconvenience when you cannot.

12/28/07 (16)
12/27/07 (10)
You are so very wrong!
Do you honestly think that people CHOOSE to be homosexual???

98% of the time yes and the other 2% was when they were born into or caught up in a life issue that blinded them and they got trapped into it and now they cant find their way out... heres some help...
www.narth.com

12/28/07 (17)
abortion or people being gay!!! What they do with their lives is their buisness!! Alot of people in high positions and with alot of power have either had an abortion or are gay!!!!!!!! Worry about your own life and less of someone elses and everyone will benefit from it!!!!!!!!!

Everyone but the baby who is no more.

12/28/07 (18)
You may not agree with the controversial Hitchens but to call him boring is simply ridiculous. Perhaps he is talking over your head.

Perhaps, but I doubt it.

12/28/07 (19)
to number 16 on 12/27/07 try David Spielvogel wonderful person who does beautiful work. i'm sure the number is in the book if not try his parents ....he did work for my family and we were very very satisfied. very hard worker who takes pride in his job and his work like he was doing it for himself...

12/28/07 (20)
If McDonald's and its customers don't like "other customers" coming in from Fountain Avenue, then McDonalds' should make it one way. I had the same problem and was told customers should drive the around the building and get in line....its not upto the customers to mandate this - why doesn't McDonald's have someone out there directing traffic?? They sure won't say anything to potential customers about how they got in the line. Just be a little more patient and it will work for customer's entering from both entrances....its McDonald's problem - not ours

 

12/27/07 (01)
12/26/07 (26)
I think you are wrong. If you claim to be Christian then you should follow what the Bible says.

12/27/07 (02)
I just read that Ellport has increased the sewage rate AGAIN! Unbelievable. Between my sewage and water, it is over $100 a month!

12/27/07 (03)
LaGrotta: after his last term ended got a  job with the House Democrats as a “consultant” for the exact same salary ($73,613) he had as a legislator.

Sadly, Frank lost the job in July when it came out that he was under investigation for putting a sister and niece on his payroll for "work" they "did". He’s also been talking to Corbett about bonuses paid to legislative workers for campaign work.

Frank’s now charged with two felonies for the ghost jobs, but he’s sitting at home collecting $520 a week in state unemployment benefits because he can’t, or won’t, get another job.

12/27/07 (04)
/26/07 (08)
I am a Democrat with a whole bunch of kids. I do not believe in abortion. How does that grab ya?

Life is full of decisions, you have made yours! But remember that when it comes to health care, college, etc.We have our own bills to pay!Please do it on your own! Abortion..If men were able to get pregnant, abortion would not be an issue!Think about that...

12/27/07 (05)
All you local people complaining about Frank LaGrotta recieving over $500.00 a week in unemployment benefits, are NOT looking at the big picture. DO NOT forget, LaGrotta also recieves his FULL PENSION,with ALL his insurance benefits PAID FOR THE REST OF HIS LIFE!!Do you really think he cares what you people think of him? He will be setting pretty,even if he goes to prison(which I doubt if he will) Which of us can go to jail and still have that kind of money put into the bank for us? I wish I had been a politician rather than working 2 jobs my whole life! WHAT A RIPOFF.

12/27/07 (06)
RE:12/26/07 (21)Were you there for God or for the decorations?

12/27/07 (07)
Iraq veteran and disabled wife who moved back to the area needs help with free furniture; unable to haul but appreciate any help that we can get.

Thank you and Merry Christmas.

(If interested in helping this family contact EllwoodCity.org for information)


12/27/07 (08)

12/27/07 (09)
12/26/07 (14)
What is the Pa. teachers pension crisis that I read about in the Ledger, and if there is a crisis, why is Gibbons trying to give the retired teachers a COLA?
Isn't gibbons aunt is a retired teacher??

12/27/07 (10)
You are so very wrong!
Do you honestly think that people CHOOSE to be homosexual???

12/27/07 (11)
RE: 12/26/07 (26)
I believe in god and I go to church every week.

However, I do believe everyone should be free to make their own choices whether it is having an abortion or being gay.

Who am I to judge anyone?

Before you jump on me, no I am not gay and no I have never had an abortion. But trust me when I tell you that you would be surprised by the people in this town that are gay and quite a few women I know that have had abortions. So don't judge, it could be your daughter that needs the abortion or has had one. Or, it could be your son or daughter that is secretly homosexual. Love people for who they are, not who YOU think they should be!

~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~
The world would be a much better place if more people opened their minds and eyes and felt like this.
We are people, not gods. We should not judge others. We are not perfect. Everything happens for a reason. We have the right to choose many things. People do not always choose to become parents, but it happens, and people certainly do not choose to be gay.
You said it all when you said "Love people for who they are, not who YOU think they should be!"

12/27/07 (12)
I would just like to say reguarding the Legratta issue. That money  was money from this community. That is OUR money. We should demand it back. if someone took from you personally you would want repaid, or them repremanded. Same thing here. Unfortually, my mother was one of his victums. She was suppose to recieve and X amount of dollars to fix up her house. Instead, they fixed it alittle left it a mess, and said we are out of money. Is that fair? She has holes in her walls, inside and out. NO money to pay for the repairs that had caused. So, now what is she to do? She is in her late 80's with very little money and was promised that they would fix everything. Yet, A year later and still nothing was done. These are the type of people who Lagratta effected. I think he should fix her house.  What do you think? A little mad.....

12/27/07 (13)
If everyone was as worried about their own lives as they do of the lives of others this world would be a whole let better! So a woman has an abortion? Do you know the reasons be hind that chioce?
Do you live that persons life? You have no clue to what that person has gone throw for them to make that descion! Stop trying to tell people how to live their lives if you are not in it personaly! Until you have walked a mile in that person's shoes you have no right to judge! Would you like someone to stand over you whom has no clue of what you have been through in your life to tell you how to run your life? Or that you are making the wrong chioce? This goes for abortion or people being gay!!! What they do with their lives is their buisness!! Alot of people in high positions and with alot of power have either had an abortion or are gay!!!!!!!! Worry about your own life and less of someone elses and everyone will benefit from it!!!!!!!!!

12/27/07 (14)
12/26/07 (01) "Before buying this book, listen to an interview with C. Hitchens. If the book is as boring as he is, you'd be wasting your money."

You may not agree with the controversial Hitchens but to call him boring is simply ridiculous. Perhaps he is talking over your head.

12/27/07 (15)
That house on franklin is on my block! KDKA channel 2 came and took pictures of it and it was on tv. It is a shame that this town the person lives in does not reconize them ,but a major tv station out of town does!

12/27/07 (16)
Need some help. I am interested in having a fireplace built onto/into my existing house. Does anybody have any recommendations as far as contractors, etc? Along with this, I am also interested in having a wood/pellet stove installed into my existing chimney? Any help in regards to either of these would be greatly appreciated, thank you.

12/27/07 (17)
To answer number (10) of 12/26 as to how Marshalls put the star up. With a bucket truck.

12/27/07 (18)
Ellwood City lost a great man this morning. Everyone please pray for Dr. Mark Moore and his family to help them get through this rough time. RIP Dr. Moore.

12/27/07 (19)
12/26/07 (11)
12/24/07 (31)
Why is it that when you go to McDonalds drive thru there are people that pull in off spring ave. and try to go directly into drive thru lane? They painted the line on the pavement for a reason! All you are doing is cutting in line and blocking the exit from the parking lot to spring ave. How much time does it take to drive around the store and fall in line where you are supposed too! McDonalds should build a curb on the line to prevent this!

I think you mean fountain ave !!


OOPS! Yes i did mean fountain ave! Something should be done!

12/27/07 (20)
Wow! Someone on this site really dislikes Gibbons. someone close to LaGrotta??

12/27/07 (21)
People ask on here what types of business does Ellwood City need... we need more like Thanks A Latte... no not another latte place but something that is kid friendly. Something for the high school age kids. My child goes there with friends and they are more than welcome. And I like them going there better than driving to Starbucks. Thank you so much " Mr. Latte" ! ( no I am not the owner trying to promote the place for business just a mom who would like local places for kids! )

12/27/07 (22)
Does anyone know when the next Wayne Township Sewer Authority meeting is?

12/27/07 (23)
In Loving Memory of Mike Rhodes:
It is hard to believe that on January 1st it will be a year since Mike left us. Please feel free to join his family in a memorial celebrating his life. On January 1st, 2008 Mikes family will be holding an open house at his mom's from 2p.m. till 8:00p.m. Please stop by and say hello and share your favorite memory with his family and friends.

12/27/07 (24)
Not many people know about the secret tunnel from spring ave that comes out of the wall and cuts in the line at McDonalds. it was built for people that don't have the gas to drive all the way around the store.

12/27/07 (25)
So sorry to hear of the untimely passing of a good man, Dr. Mark Moore will be sadly missed.

12/27/07 (26)
To the family of Dr. Mark Moore I just want to let you know what a great guy he was. He will be missed.
He was a very caring doctor.

12/27/07 (27)
http://www.ellwoodcityledger.com/site/news.cfm?newsid=
19147363&BRD=2724&PAG=461&dept_id=563781&rfi=6

I would hope that Chief McDonald is given a chance to get his papers to recertify. This town needs someone like him.

12/27/07 (28)
Before you jump on me, no I am not gay and no I have never had an abortion. But trust me when I tell you that you would be surprised by the people in this town that are gay and quite a few women I know that have had abortions. So don't judge, it could be your daughter that needs the abortion or has had one. Or, it could be your son or daughter that is secretly homosexual. Love people for who they are, not who YOU think they should be!

and you do the same for Christians who don't hold your views !!

12/27/07 (29)
12/26/07 (25)
Conservatives bash liberals about social programs because they choose a lifestyle that keeps bringing in more and more children who are not being taken care of. If people were RESPONSIBLE for their own actions, they would take care of themselves, and their children. It' just common sense. We don't owe you our tax money because you refuse to work or use birth control.

I fully understand that people need to be accountable for their actions. I've never had any kind of help in my life. But what I am saying is, if people who know full well that they don't have the resources to raise a child, choose NOT to have an abortion, then who pays to raise this child? Wouldn't it be the social programs that are helping raise these children? So how can you be against one and not the other?
 

12/26/07 (01)
A great last minute Christmas gift that can be purchased at any good bookstore: "god is not Great: How Religion Poisons Everything" by Christopher Hitchens. Highly recommended.

Before buying this book, listen to an interview with C. Hitchens. If the book is as boring as he is, you'd be wasting your money.

12/26/07 (02)
12/24/07 (22)
The teachers of the EC School District raised nearly $1,500 in one day for baby Gavin. Says a lot doesn't it? Pretty caring group of individuals if you ask me! And some of you have the audacity to bash them. Happy Holidays and May God Bless an infant today!

I think its great that the people of Ellwood have joined together to raise funds for baby Gavin. But I also think that it should be kept private how much has been raised. This to me is a personal thing. Come on lets keep up the fund raisers but not post how much was raised. Give the family some privacy.
God Bless you Gavin.
Don't forget the blood drive Dec. 29 at the Perry twp. fire hall.

12/26/07 (03)
I've been out of Ellwood most of my life. I'm not close minded at all. what's normal about 2 people of the same sex wanting to get married ? I think the ugliness and close mindedness is on your side.

Your comment makes ZERO sense.. are you insecure with yourself?? Maybe "normal" to you is not "normal" to others... you are not the judge. Explain how my open thoughts are ugly and close minded.

12/26/07 (04)
Happy New Year!

USA
is
The Home of the Free
Because of the Brave!

A big Thanks to our Servicemen and Women!!

12/26/07 (05)
Those NFL jerseys that are being sold as "authentic", are the same as the fake purses.

12/26/07 (06)
I bought a #7 away jersey for $275.00, it's the real
deal. Check out the tags, crest, sleeves. If you have any doubts don't buy it. The fakes are going
for $30.00 on ebay.

12/26/07 (07)
Obviously someone on this site has no clue to the system. Rendall has nothing to say about unemployment guidelines so don't bother him with this nonsense. By the way, there are ousted Republicans also collecting.

12/26/07 (08)
I am a Democrat with a whole bunch of kids. I do not believe in abortion. How does that grab ya?

12/26/07 (09)
The people in Harrisburg (including Gibbons) do not vote to allow anyone to collect unemployment. Where do you come up with crap from?

12/26/07 (10)
Does anyone know how Marshalls funeral home got that star on their chimney?

12/26/07 (11)
12/24/07 (31)
Why is it that when you go to McDonalds drive thru there are people that pull in off spring ave. and try to go directly into drive thru lane? They painted the line on the pavement for a reason! All you are doing is cutting in line and blocking the exit from the parking lot to spring ave. How much time does it take to drive around the store and fall in line where you are supposed too! McDonalds should build a curb on the line to prevent this!

I think you mean fountain ave !!

12/26/07 (12)


12/26/07 (13)
#39 if you want to read trash that is fine, but why would you be buying a Christmas gift or were you making a lame attempt at humor?

12/26/07 (14)
What is the Pa. teachers pension crisis that I read about in the Ledger, and if there is a crisis, why is Gibbons trying to give the retired teachers a COLA? The Ledger article stated that the premium payments that school boards send to the teachers pension fund are going to triple in a few years. Can we afford this? How much money do our local districts send in each year? This would wipe out any property tax reduction we would get from the lottery, wouldn't it? Any opinions or knowledge about this "pension crisis".

12/26/07 (15)
12/24/07 (21)
re:12/21/07 (30)
I am currently looking for a new employer. I am a welder. MIG and TIG...anyone out there know of anyone hiring? Any lead would be much appreciated.

I saw a sign outside of an employment agency in Zelienople stating something about a Mig Welder. They are on route 19, I think across from the 7-11.

I also saw that the place is called choice one staffing..also if u sign up through careerlink they have alot of job postings the site is pacareerlink.state.pa.us good luck...

12/26/07 (16)
What businesses would you like to see come to the Ellwood City area? Once you have thought of a business how would you propose to bring that sort of business here?

The point is to many of our young adults are leaving the area and moving elsewhere to live and get jobs. What kinda of jobs does the Ellwood area and Lawrence County need to keep the young around?

There are too many of us who just sit and complain about the local and state problems such as taxes or crime and the many other things. About the crime heck get a scanner you would be surprised at what you hear on the scanner. Many more of us need to get involved instead of just sitting around. Get involved more in the political affiliation that you are a member of. Try and become more aware. Attend the local city or township meetings. Until more of us start getting involved we are going to continue towards a downward spiral and continue to debate and talk about the same thing tomorrow and next year and the year after and year after.

12/26/07 (17)
Anyone have any good New Years resolutions?

12/26/07 (18)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3AlrFOBmdVI

Remember the old businesses and things to do around town growing up or even just within the past decade. Remember the old fads or the music you listened to or the people you grew up with. The sports figures like when the Pirates actually had a team. The difference in our cars from today compared to what they were before.

If anyone could please share the things that you remember. Remember when you did something for the first time or Remember when you would visit a store that may no longer be around or Remember when a thriving business or industry was around. Remember when something used to be a certain way. Remember when that hair cut or clothes was the in thing or certain types of music or bands was what you listened to. Or Remember a person that may no longer be around that has passed. Remember when you didn't have to worry about locking the doors. Talk about the times when you remember gas was under a dollar.

12/26/07 (19)
I'm living out of town, California. I got a great Christmas present from family back home. a cd with a song about Ellwood and pee wee's. what a great job by the group generation2. I must have played it 10 times on Christmas day.

12/26/07 (20)
It was nice to see David home for Christmas. He did a wonderful job at midnight mass He also had the alter servers run the mass smoothly. He will make a wonderful priest one day. David you look great and very happy. May God bless you.

JM

12/26/07 (21)
I came home for Christmas from Dallas to spend time with my family during the holiday season. I was surprised to see how terrible the church I attended for midnight mass looked. The walls are various shades of gold and then go to a terrible shade of orange. Why would the church do this? It looks terrible. I know there are a lot of people asking the same question. I heard so many negative comments about that at mass. I am glad that I only have to look at the walls once a year now. Who's bright idea was that? Maybe there should have been a suggestion in the bulletin about what color the people thought would like nice.

12/26/07 (22)
12/24/07 (38)
I have Armstrong phone and 2 PCs online and don't have any issues with bandwidth. in 3 or 4 years I have never gotten booted off or had phone issues.

I think I meant to say vontage phone causes the problems.

12/26/07 (23)
To 12/24/07 (19)
12/21/07 (19)
Are we "allowed" to make comments yet on something that has impacted this community greatly?! I'm talking about the LaGrotta/Bartolomeo/Lemmon "alleged" felons.

Now it has been reported that he is taking over $500 a week in unemployment?!

They act like they did nothing wrong...

who's to say they did anything wrong ? who can say that fraud is wrong if the bible didn't say "thou shalt not steal" now if your going to say they did wrong then where are you getting your standard of right and wrong from
It depends on what the meaning of is,is.

12/26/07 (24)
Merry Christmas to everyone on soundoff.
as we celebrate the birth of the Lord Jesus Christ let us not get caught up in all the commercialism and politicizing that goes on. if your celebrating Christmas then just remember who and not what your celebrating.

12/26/07 (25)
Conservatives bash liberals about social programs because they choose a lifestyle that keeps bringing in more and more children who are not being taken care of. If people were RESPONSIBLE for their own actions, they would take care of themselves, and their children. It' just common sense. We don't owe you our tax money because you refuse to work or use birth control.

12/26/07 (26)
I believe in god and I go to church every week.

However, I do believe everyone should be free to make their own choices whether it is having an abortion or being gay.

Who am I to judge anyone?

Before you jump on me, no I am not gay and no I have never had an abortion. But trust me when I tell you that you would be surprised by the people in this town that are gay and quite a few women I know that have had abortions. So don't judge, it could be your daughter that needs the abortion or has had one. Or, it could be your son or daughter that is secretly homosexual. Love people for who they are, not who YOU think they should be!

12/24/07 (01)
formatting your had drive does not clean it. it only erases your FAT or NTFS and declares that all space is available to write over. the old data is still there waiting to be written over. this data can be recovered.
the only way to ensure that it is clean is to wipe the hard drive using a wiping utility. the DOD guidelines recommend wiping a drive 7 times to be secure but once will suffice.
the software needed to recover data from a drive wiped less than 7 times is extremely expensive and the common criminal that could afford it wouldn't be interested in your or my information.

12/24/07 (02)
Hope everyone has a very "MERRY CHRISTMAS" and a very "HAPPY NEW YEAR " May GOD bless you with lots of love, health ,and happiness throughout the year .

12/24/07 (03)
I have to sit back and shake my head in disbelief when I read all the whining about the decline in the level and quality of services such as snow removal, etc.

It seems that many of the complainers on this site forget the simple fact that the tax base that runs the borough and school district has diminished over the years. In the 50's, 60's and 70's you had a strong wage tax income from all the mill workers, you had a larger amount comining in from property taxes as well.

Yes, wages have gone up, but he tax base has shrunk! Therefore, to maintain the quality of services the property tax must go up!! But, OH NO! We can't afford that. But, we want the same level of services.

Crime is running rampent, but you have had to cut the police force back from 16 full time officers to the present level of 7 or 8. Maybe that is why you don't see as many police patrols. There used to be 4 marked and 3 unmarked cars out on every shift. How many officers are now available.

We want better snow removal. We used to have crews working on stand-by during the winter doing interor painting and cleaning. Now we have to wait for a call-out to be authorized and then the funds are limited. Yes, everything costs more.

I wonder what it would really cost to impliment the same level of services today that we had back in the 60's & 70's?

Keep in mind the old adage "You get what you pay for!"


12/24/07 (04)
"And you don't need to be a Christian or a Republican to see the error of being a homosexual?"

Then want do you have to be? A bigot perhaps.

I am both a Christian and a Republican. I believe homosexuality to be wrong but should one of my children come to me and say they were homosexual, I would accept and love them just the same. It isn't your Religion or your Political view that makes a person hate homosexuality. It is a lack of knowledge and understanding.

12/24/07 (05)
I'm a Republican and I have to comment on the gay issue. I personally have NO PROBLEM with people being gay. If it is wrong, God will deal with it, it's not my problem. I know and am related to many gay people who are kind-hearted, personable, and the same as us in every other way. I don't care what they do in the privacy of their own homes. My only problem with gay people is some of the individuals at those gay pride parades with their choice of costumes, accessories, lewd acts, and mocking religion. THEY DO MORE DAMAGE to the cause than any political party can do. On the other hand, if they had straight pride parades, and straight people acted like that in public, I would be just as repulsed. What you do in your owm bedroom IS your own business. NORMAL people don't want to see displays of it in the streets. Come down on THOSE people, and leave the rest of us conservatives alone.

12/24/07 (06)


12/24/07 (07)
It's like condemning terrorist then signing up for the taliban.

I guess it's ok to kill innocent Iraqi children because the republicans are the christian party? These politicians use religion to get your vote. It is sad that people fall for this scam. Vote for the best person who will get the job done.

12/24/07 (08)
MORE stink for Ellwood City!!! Lagrotta getting unemployment benefits! Bet he thought no one would find out about that! How much more do we have to take here?

If you want to actually do something, here is a link to Governor Rendell's email address.

Inundate him with emails asking him why Lagrotta got unemployment benefits??? If we dont get a good answer vote Republican or Independent make it a priority to show the powers that be that we won't stand for this ludicrisy anymore!

We must let our voices be heard, there is no other way we can show that we are hopping mad about this!


http://sites.state.pa.us/PA_Exec/Governor/govmail.html

They should all 3 be so ASHAMED of themselves!

12/24/07 (09)
12/21/07 (38)
i'm a democrat and have never voted for a republican but i believe abortion and homosexuality is as wrong as any republican or any church does. you dont need to be a christian or a republican to see the error of those 2 practices.

Every time you vote for a democrat you vote for these things.
-----------------------------------------------
okay, but then why do conservatives bash the liberals about the social programs? Someone has to take care of these children.

12/24/07 (10)
What a great state this is! You can steal money from the state-hire relatives to be "ghost employees" -lose your job, they still get more in unemployment that most people make in a week. And, according to the papers, ALL of the Democrats in Harrisburg voted "Yes" in giving LaGrotta the benefits...including Gibbons. Hey, wasn't he the one who was going to bring "change" to Harrisburg? Ths last Democrat governor we had, Milton Shapp, was so corrupt 45 people went to prison, including 2 from Ellwood. I think that REndell will break that record. You have got to love Pa. Democrats!

12/24/07 (11)
I am a teacher. I would be 100% willing to teach all year round with up to 7 weeks of vacation time whenever I want, 5 personal days, 15 sick days full healthcare benefits, and double time and a half overtime opportunities, that I feel are all similiar to borough employees. And, of course, the additional pay for all the added days we would be teaching. THAT, naturally, would give you people MORE to whine about, I'm sure. Just think, parents would no longer have the long summer vacation time and all the holiday time, way less glorified/free babysitting which would require them to hire daycare (have you priced that lately?) Think before you act!! Or you may just get what you wish for. However, when that happens, many may simply find new things to whine about here on WHINE OFF


I sure can tell that you are a teacher because you love your job. Do us all a favor and go flip burgers.

12/24/07 (12)
To the person looking for a welding job: WELDER/FABRICATOR Zelienople machinery manufacturer is seeking certified MIG welder - four positions - to fit and weld steel and stainless steel. TIG welding and the ability to lay out and form sheet metal would be a plus. Must be able to read blueprints and have a minimum two years of related work experience and/or training. Clean, modern working conditions. Highly competitive wages and benefits, including 401k. E.O.E. Send resume to: Beaver Newspapers, Inc., Box 653, 400 Fair Ave., Beaver, PA 15009

12/24/07 (13)
Wishing each and everyone a Joyous Holiday! may you be with those you hold dearest.

12/24/07 (14)
Who is selling NFL jerseys imported from China? I would like to buy some at that price.if you look at the "authentic" you'll see who makes them

12/24/07 (15)
12/21/07 (40) "well they can try hard to cover all the bases but they'll still be 'out at home'. if you got the time,heres a good website to indulge in."

If it was really any good you would not need to threaten anyone with a bad afterlife in order to convince people to believe. The Web site was very amusing--thanks for the link! Merry Christmas and a happy New Year!

12/24/07 (16)
RE: MY point exactly, If you feel these things are wrong, why side with people who do not.
It's like condemning terrorist then signing up for the taliban.

because i dont base my vote on issues that need to be addressed by the church. its not any political parties place to preach the gospel. the biggest reason the democrats take the stands they do is because the republicans are so pharisical.most democrats i know arent homosexuals and dont abort their babies.

12/24/07 (17)
12/20/07 (05) "i'm a democrat and have never voted for a republican but i believe abortion and homosexuality is as wrong as any republican or any church does. you dont need to be a christian or a republican to see the error of those 2 practices."

Why do abortion and homosexuality go hand in hand? Why are you biased against a group that does not hurt you in any way?

12/24/07 (18)
I'm a democrat, and if you believe that gays are evil than I would prefer you to vote Republican or Socialist or Libertarian. I am not getting into a big gay thing, but there are gays all amongst you. Maybe even living in Ellwood and posting on soundoff like me. Perhaps working in the stores you frequent.

"And you don't need to be a Christian or a Republican to see the error of being a homosexual?"

Then want do you have to be? A bigot perhaps.

i dont believe gays or women who have abortions are evil. it seems as though your one of those 2 and trying very hard to find justification for your lifestyle by branding christians as bigots or hateful. thats not the case and i believe that deep down you know it. .

12/24/07 (19)
12/21/07 (19)
Are we "allowed" to make comments yet on something that has impacted this community greatly?! I'm talking about the LaGrotta/Bartolomeo/Lemmon "alleged" felons.

Now it has been reported that he is taking over $500 a week in unemployment?!

They act like they did nothing wrong...

who's to say they did anything wrong ? who can say that fraud is wrong if the bible didnt say "thou shalt not steal" now if your going to say they did wrong then where are you getting your standard of right and wrong from ?

12/24/07 (20)
To: 12/21/07 (18)
12/20/07 (04)
RE 12/19/07 (03)
We NEED to raise taxes in Ellwood to ensure a better quality community! Its a fact. Your tax money is enough just to fund 1 department...The police. Thats a shame. And to you who don't have it all upstairs, NO!, the answer is not to lower their pay, but rather raise your taxes! The police, borough workers, teachers and local politicians are valuable services to you. If you don't take care of them, you have what we have right now, MEDIOCRITY!!!!

I could agree with this statement if our officers weren't taking home 90-100k a year!! Our little Borough makes a lot, A LOT of money from the Electric Dept. I don't mind a tax increase if it helps our community, then so be it. BUT I will mind if it's only going to end up in the pockets of the people already manipulating the system.

Two things...

1. All you have to do is eliminate or stop the offficers' manipulation of overtime pay, and they won't be making 90 to 100K

2. The people need to monitor and prevent the manipulators from doing what they do by simply getting involved and not just sitting there whining here on WHINE OFF!

12/24/07 (21)
re:12/21/07 (30)
I am currently looking for a new employer. I am a welder. MIG and TIG...anyone out there know of anyone hiring? Any lead would be much appreciated.

I saw a sign outside of an employment agency in Zelienople stating something about a Mig Welder. They are on route 19, I think across from the 7-11.

12/24/07 (22)
The teachers of the EC School District raised nearly $1,500 in one day for baby Gavin. Says a lot doesn't it? Pretty caring group of individuals if you ask me! And some of you have the audacity to bash them. Happy Holidays and May God Bless an infant today!

12/24/07 (23)
12/21/07 (36)
i'm a democrat and have never voted for a republican but i believe abortion and homosexuality is as wrong

And you are also close-minded and probably have never been outside of Ellwood City. It's people like you who make this world ugly. I pity you.

who are you to tell me i make the world ugly ? you got alot of gall saying something like that. i pity you that you cant see the error. nature itself teaches you that.

12/24/07 (24)
And you are also close-minded and probably have never been outside of Ellwood City. It's people like you who make this world ugly. I pity you.

i've been out of ellwood most of my life. i'm not close minded at all. whats normal about 2 people of the same sex wanting to get married ? i think the ugliness and close mindedness is on your side.

12/24/07 (25)
Ho Ho Ho !!!
As I strolled up and down the 'AVENUE'
with bells in hand
I saw smiles on faces
of every woman and man.
I went to see Bob Kimpel
and Mary next door
then on to Eric Ryan
for a little bit more
then to the ESB bank
where all were a'glitter'
and next door in their offices
I was greeted with cheer
then to California Tan
for an appointment December 26
the girl just smiled so the appointment was nixed
over to the boro building to the Cheif to say
my sled had been stolen and I was in my chevrolet
On to see Charlie, makin some lunch
into the Hallmark saw shoppers what a bunch!
up the the teachers at Holy Redeemer as they gathered
Kay offered me some wings all tastefully lathered
then on out to Christy's where many were eating
soon my trip would be near completing
once to the township,to see a dear friend
back into town but my trip didn't end
past fountain ave. Betty Anne's sister I can't miss
only a few times each year that I dress up like this
last thru the park, With a shout at old LOU
and to home where I wrote of my travels to you.
In all of this trip I was only wished well
if there was any sorrow I could not tell
And All wished MERRY CHRISTMS
not an 'x mas' was heard
this told me more than any other word
for on my short journey today
I found Christ in men hearts
I am happy to report
Thats a great start!
So be of good cheer, and kindness to each other

Thanks to you all ,Especially

JESUS' Mother

The Mystery SANTA

12/24/07 (26)
Do NOT donate your old computers! Throw them away!First, old used computers have no value and are a dime a dozen, and nobody truly needs them. But most importantly you can never erase all your family's personal information, account information, pictures, etc! Why would anyone risk identity theft to donate a worthless computer. When in doubt, throw it out!

12/24/07 (27)
Blood Drive Sat. Dec. 29th

A Blood Drive in Gavin Myer's name will be held on Saturday December 29th from 9 am to 3 pm at the Wurtemburg/Perry Fire Hall. Gavin has had 4 blood transfusions so far and his parents would like to host a blood drive for the community as a gesture of their appreciation.

12/24/07 (28)
i'm a democrat and have never voted for a republican but i believe abortion and homosexuality is as wrong as any republican or any church does. you dont need to be a christian or a republican to see the error of those 2 practices.

I agree 100%

12/24/07 (29)
In ref to # 11 on 12/20- and your question “What othe